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The Nature of Consciousness

Discussion in 'Life, the Universe and Everything' started by San, Apr 21, 2017.

  1. San

    San

    Continued / forked discussion from here:
    http://www.entropiaplanets.com/threads/my-four-cigarettes.18904/page-2#post-127603

    To lead in, two quotes by Max Planck (https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Max_Planck#Quotes):

    "Science cannot solve the ultimate mystery of nature. And that is because, in the last analysis, we ourselves are part of nature and therefore part of the mystery that we are trying to solve."

    "I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing, postulates consciousness."

    Several decades after the great physicist, efforts were begun to break this paradigm and to try and get behind what that actually is, consciousness. Related phenomena like psychic abilities are researched in earnest since then, too, with some interesting outcomes. I can't describe all this in one go, just to start somewhere and if there is interest to add further pointers later, here goes.

    Several years ago I found out about an online experiment by Dean Radin described here (further down in the article linked below after lengthy introduction). I still have trouble believing what I saw. By directing your attention to it, or taking it away, you could influence a value which got plotted on the screen, which was claimed to be derived from the "degree of randomness" of the output of a true random number generator, i.e. not a computer simulated pseudorandom sequence, but an actual hardware device based on measuring a quantum effect. With only your conscious attention you could actually influence it, and from a distance. Done enough times, on and off, to eliminate chance and until you have to believe that you're actually doing it. No microphone or camera or any feedback mechanism connected, or you would have been alerted if the website tried to access any peripheral device, so no idea how it could have been fraud. This has consequences...
    https://thesearchforlifeafterdeath....tes-scientific-basis-for-mind-of-over-matter/
    http://noosphere.princeton.edu/
    http://www.noetic.org/
     
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  2. Jamira

    Jamira Samurai Girl

    Sorry San, I couldn't resist. Just a sidenote: Crazy historical crossroads! Guess what happened 1943. Old guy Max Planck found shelter from Nazi regime in the village Rogaetz near Magdeburg. That's the village I lived at for 35 years (1954-1989).
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2017
  3. San

    San

    Nice coincidence! I got to travel these parts both no earlier and no later than 1990, to come again and stay a few years in Jena from '92 onwards. Those were interesting times, not just for the potholes.

    Some more material about the topics and names dropped in your thread -- sorry if it's overwhelming at once, it sure took me years to study and come to terms with it at all:

    Heinz von Foerster: "Truth is the invention of a liar"
    https://www.feldenkraisnow.org/truthistheinvent.html

    Penrose & Hameroff
    http://www.quantumconsciousness.org/

    Puthoff & Targ
    http://www.espresearch.com/mindreach/
    http://www.irva.org/remote-viewing/timeline.html

    Ingo Swann
    http://www.ingoswann.com/super-powers-of-the-human-biomind.html

    Thomas Campbell
    http://wiki.my-big-toe.com/Main_Page

    And an o/t... I slept through this :(
    http://spaceweather.com/archive.php?view=1&day=22&month=04&year=2017
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2017
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  4. San

    San

    Again was setting out for a short answer and then it started flooding in your thread...

    I don't have a definite answer to your question. Research is only just beginning to scratch the surface. The difficulty lies in the paradigm which appears in cybernetics and quantum mechanics: The observer is part of the observed system, cannot separate from it, even alters the system through the act of observation.

    What we know is there seem to be two sides of it, an autonomous part which manifests in a sufficiently sophisticated physical body and creates individual entities (or what we perceive as individuality), and a common part, a "universe of consciousness" or "universal unconscious" as Carl Jung put it, which stays connected and keeps delivering information to us. This is evidenced by the finding that things like remote viewing actually work. Other cultures have found this, too, even long ago. Vedic tradition calls it "Akashic Records". Some writers postulate the universe "is" consciousness, like a field that permeates everything or constitutes the fabric at the most basic level, as opposed to our perception of being a dot of life in a basically dead space. I like to think of it from the angle that everything is information (Eckhart Tolle has a similar approach -- also good to help with coping). There is a lot more to discover, certainly.

    AI is basically the effort to understand the system by attempting to create a simulation of it, just like every other model in physics. Whether it will be capable of becoming self-aware merely through sophistication or if the natural body has properties which we cannot replicate this way, is one of the big questions. That part about connection to the universe is not currently considered by the AI community. We don't yet have a theory or even a shred of understanding what the nature of that connection is.
     
  5. Many years ago I read a bunch of stuff by Carl Jung, and many of the folks that have followed in his footsteps, when I was doing my BFA as an undergrad, and doing a lot of studies on my own dreams, etc. It's a very interesting branch of study... I personally believe that the conscious and unconscious mind communicate in a much deeper way than many of us realize, and that the universal patterns that are used for the method of communicating, while different from person to person in the actual symbols used, as it is related to the history of that person's experiences, derives from a very common denominator... i.e. his theory of archetypes. His archetype theory was primarily based on the character types I believe, but my personal experience it that there is a lot more to it than that, and it has also to do with the physical settings, scenery, symbols, landmarks, etc. that we all experience... If you have a recurring dream that is in a certain location or scene that has many common denominators with other times you are in a similar scene in another dream, it has a purpose, and meaning, and the way that scene and the ones before and after it connect have something to do with the way your conscious and unconscious mind are talking to one another, in a physical way, sort of literally 'mapping' out the ideas and how they connect to one another in the archetype outlines associated with both scenes... sometimes it can actually be a very physical pathway in the dream which could relate to the physical interconnection between two cellular structures in your physical brain... If you haven't tried dream journals, do it.
     
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  6. Kemlo

    Kemlo Zone of Silence

    Coincidentally just re-reading 'The Dancing Wu Li Masters' that based upon some of the posts in here I'm betting at least one of you will have read.

    If into Carl Jung well can highly recommend American psychotherapist/writer Sheldon Kopp (eg. the popular 'If you meet the Buddha on the Road, Kill Him' or the harder to find 'The Hanged Man') who is very readable, human, witty, funny and educational.

    Recently I've started to convince myself that everything in the universe is alive in some way and that time does not follow a one-way, linear route but that the past is in some way accessible to us and that everything we do really does 'echo through the universe for all eternity'. So watch out!

    Oh, and how can a big blob of grey matter in our heads create our experience of the world and all it's wonders?
     
  7. San

    San

    Here is where I'm coming from with all this -- finding out (much against my established belief) that this actually works had a major impact on my world view and approach to paradigms and belief systems (- they tend to get in the way):

    http://www.mprv.net/one20.html

    A short introduction:
    http://www.deanradin.com/NewWeb/TCUindex.html

    A group I'm involved with has created a Discord channel just about a week or so ago. I can send invites in case someone is interested.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2017
  8. San

    San

    To both: Exactly!
     
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  9. On the past lives thing big crunch theory has mostly been disproven but still can lead to some romantic notions of how it might work
     

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